From The Rachel Maddow Show, July 15:
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"...each additional American life sacrificed to a goal we know we won't reach is a moral outrage... if you believe that our actions -- our American actions -- in 2010 cannot make it more likely that there's a real government in Afghanistan, then asking Americans to die in Afghanistan is wrong."
It took 8 years and a new President, but the military gets it too.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/18/world/asia/18tea.html?src=me&ref=homepage
As for "Why wouldn't we be sending candy bars, teachers, doctors, nurses, hospital and school construction workers, nutritionists?", if we sent them in by themselves and without the military clearing an area of insurgents first, and provide armed escorts, we would have a lot of DEAD "candy bars, teachers, doctors, nurses, hospital and school construction workers, nutritionists" before they even had a chance to do anything constructive. As it were, even with the military presence, they are killing many of their own that dared to educate girls, collude with the "decadent Western governments, etc. The candy bars we can sacrifice.
hmmm, maybe nobody has thought of that one?!? However, "There will be blood!"
I get it, I really really do -- we need to stay in Afghanistan so that the Taliban and Al queda can't get back control and use it as a base of operations and training. I get that Afghanistan is so poor, so war torn and destroyed, the people so uneducated and so demoralized that they could be infiltrated by unscrupulous *leaders*. My question is then why in the world would we send a MILITARY? Why wouldn't we be sending candy bars, teachers, doctors, nurses, hospital and school construction workers, nutritionists? at a LOT lower cost, certainly lower in human cost and in financial as well. The argument being used cannot be true in my mind because the solution doesn't fit what the stated problem is...
However, the pipeline running across Afghanistan, the fact that the prez is an OIL COMPANY executive type, and Chrevron and Halliburton have huge interests there - well - then I can see the military response instead...
Oh the ideas this gives me. I think the ideas of political cultures is on the spot.
Karen Hughes was paid six figures in the State Dept to win the hearts and minds. Where is she now? She, Condi and Liz Cheney owe us a refund.
Republicans have no moral compass only a financial one. They appear to turn against it because it's one more way to harass Obama. Fantasyland has uttered the definitive synopsis. "Republicans would boil their children if they thought it would score them some oil."
We never take other cultures into account when making foreign policy decisions.
Democracy in Iraq is not democracy by our definition; there are huge differences in their history, region, cultural and religious biases and ours.
Afghanistan has no concept of democracy and won't in most of our lifetimes. We can't nation build even though George Bush tried unsuccessfully to do that in both countries.
It's Vietnam all over again only we'll pay an even higher price for these debacles financially and in terms of the lives we'll shatter here and there. Go to the VA Hospital and watch the men and women that walk in and out. The numbers of young vets in wheelchairs is growing rapidly. PTSD is an epidemic among returning soldiers, a condition with long term consequences.
It's time to cut our losses and leave. Even though this is the GOP's war, they are starting to turn against it.
Not a military objective but for sure it is an American objective?
true, but on a finite planet ultimately 'their' problems will be 'our' problems. What about the innocent in Afghanistan? They are a demoralized people, but is it the demoralized's fault or the 'Republican' greedy? There is no correct answer, we have only our morals to guide us.
"There's no reason why this shouldn't be successful if the Afghans do their part."
It doesn't matter how earnest we are. We can't want it for them more than they want it themselves and make it happen. You can lead a horse to water, but if you have to drown it in the damn trough to get it to drink, it rather defeats the purpose ... and you end up with a dead horse.
We have ALREADY given them (in the Middle East) the best chance they will ever have.
When do we get that same chance here in the US? We could literally change the face of the entire US with the amount of lives, money and time we have thrown away over there.
Apparently, I have some liberal leanings too, Rachel.